Stanley Hauerwas is a fascinating thinker who reckons that narrative and character are the keys to moral thinking in the Christian life. He writes this:
"We do not become free by conforming our actions to the categorical imperative but by being accepts as disciples and thus learning to imitate a master. Such discipleship can only appear heteronomous from the moral point of view, since the paradigm cannot be related to, or determined by, principles known prior to imitation. For the Christian, morality is not chosen and then confirmed by the example of others; instead, we learn what the moral life entails by imitating another.”
What he empahises is that Christian moral teaching is not something "out there", abstracted from the people who live such teaching out in their daily lives.
He thinks too, that Protestant doctrines of justification haven't helped us to live out our discipleship in the world actually:
“The Protestant condemnation of moral theology did not help, as Protestants did little more than assert that good works “flow” from faith. Concern for moral development from the Protestant perspective was thus seen as a form of works righteousness”.
The result he says is that Protestant morality has just been an adaptation of local moral values and ends up being just "decency".
I think he has a point: when i hear people explain what it is to be Christian in practice sometimes it just sounds like they are just talking about middle-class moral decency and not the kind of costly discipleship that Jesus seems to advocating.
He also says:
“What is crucial is not that Christians know the truth, but that they be the truth”.
Which brings me to a further issue: what is the role of suffering for the Christian? Can middle-class white educated Christians (like me) with every privilege going really speak of themselves as taking up their crosses and following Jesus in any convincing way?
16 comments:
If God's laws are written on their hearts, yes they can.
Would be able to say more?
Yes, even white middle class educated Christians can suffer. I'm in that category, and I trod through hell a couple of years back. I know plenty of others in the demographic who have as well.
Everyone has a season of sorrow in their life. If God has spared you so far - praise Him!
It is true that times of difficulty have, for me, been the times of most spiritual growth. However, we ought not to seek out suffering, or bemoan the fact that God has been good to us. That is perverse.
For western christians like ourselves, I believe the call is to live simply and give generously. If we do that, we do not need to be ashamed of the good things God gives us to enjoy.
Mike,
Don't get down about being a white middle class educated Christian. Unfortunately, while such a "type" of person is common in places like Sydney, they are, unfortunately, quite uncommon in places like the United States.
The gay community, for example, is a highly educated group of people. But they see it as a positive.
Anyway... on the issue of suffering. Like Craig, I went through my own private hell a few years ago. I had been taught beforehand that suffering is part and parcel of living in a fallen world, so there was no sudden collapse of my faith. It was certainly tested, but God was certainly the one who has brought me through it. In hindsight, the prayers I prayed at the time that God would deliver me and help me cope have, in many ways, been answered - although not in the timeframe that I wanted it to be done!
Maybe its simply a matter of perspective. If we start with the premise that we are sinners and that our world will always bring suffering, then any joy and gladness we gain is seen for what it is - a great and wonderful gift from God that has not be earned in any way.
I don't know if I've helped the discussion any, but certainly my trust in Christ alone was a major factor in God sustaining me and protecting me through my time of trial.
Suffering points to hope. Our hope is in Christ Jesus, who suffered endlessly for us. Just because you have yet to suffer doesn't mean anything yet. I'd worry if you have gone your entire life without a little bit of suffering. Job seems to fit you a bit. He didn't even suffer until late in life. Even then a hedge of protection was around him. Perhaps you fit in this boat.
In a nutshell, suffering bolsters hope.
, Which brings me to a further issue: what is the role of suffering for the Christian? Can middle-class white educated Christians (like me) with every privilege going really speak of themselves as taking up their crosses and following Jesus in any convincing way? .
G'day Michael, I do not belive that suffering should be considered the norm for Christian living, nor should we not expect it either.
I think the conservative church loses a lot by not truly looking at the narrative of Acts.
It shows a time, quite lengthy in fact of the church not going through any time of persecution.
I think we need to be careful though of not sitting on our behinds - otherwise we will find ourselves suddenly being persecuted, and in a time of suffering. This can happen by lack of true prayerfulness, not lobbying for just laws, false compassion in law making, such as we see in Vic Australia with the religious anitvilification law etc.
Another example is in the lead up to the last fedral election the shadow attorny general told a packed out marraige forum that they were going to implement a federal anti sexual, racial, religious bill.
If that passed it would have meant that a minister would be guilty if they did not marry a so called christian gay couple, or a church could be in trouble for not hiring a wiccan youth worker.....praise God that nearly 1000 people down there booed her, which caused much suprise to her, and the senate recieved over 10'000 responses regarding it....praise God.
I also detect a bit (lot)of self inspection going on, which if is prayerful is a great thing to do. Only you can really answer the question if you take up your cross on a daily basis, before God and man.
Blessings craig b
Craig B wrote
I think the conservative church loses a lot by not truly looking at the narrative of Acts. It shows a time, quite lengthy in fact of the church not going through any time of persecution.
I would agree with Craig that we need to read our scriptures more carefully. To that end, a brief read through Acts shows Christian preachers being heckled (ch. 2), jailed and hauled before the religious authorities (ch. 4), arrested and flogged (ch .5), murdered (ch. 7), the church persecuted and scattered (ch. 8), having "murderous threats" breathed out against them (ch. 9), jailed, persecuted, put to death (ch. 12), etc. For a summary of Paul's experiences on his journeys described in the second half of Acts, see 2 Corinthians 11.
Now, Craig might want to argue that what happens in Acts is in no way normative for the twenty-first century church, but I don't think one can escape the fact that the early church was persecuted and suffered. Any other reading of first-century history is unable to account for the exhortations to perseverance in the face of suffering found in, for example, Hebrews and 1 Peter.
Jonathan
thanks for this: very interesting so far. I have to say I completely disagree with you Craig B: it seems to be that suffering IS to be expected in the Christian life. I could cite numerous passages...
Thankyou for those who shared that they had suffered. But was that suffering suffering "for Christ" in the sense that the NT means?
G'day Michael,
I actually did say,
, G'day Michael, I do not belive that suffering should be considered the norm for Christian living, , nor should we not expect it either. ,
I think that we should be looking to God, doing his work, expecting some kind of fruit to come of our ministry.
I don't walk around expecting to be persecuted, nor do I walk around expecting not to be persecuted.
I think that far to many people are worried about being persecuted if thy do speak out, or up.....
The time of peace I am talking about comes from Acts 9:31, that Paul himself suffered much persecution is true. We have to be careful though that we do not take on board for our self something that God had planned for Paul.
I think it is legitimate for the church and therefore Christians to enjoy times of peace in any age.
I am not saying that we will not ever or that we should not be persecuted or suffer in any way.
My comments were in regard to what you said about yourself not carrying the cross, in which I believed you meant because of your middleclass background.
You have completly miss read me.
craig b
But was that suffering suffering "for Christ" in the sense that the NT means?
Ah, I misunderstood your question. My bad.
Still, as regard suffering for Christ, I dont think demography has anything to do with it at all. Yes, there are (many) places in the world where Christians are persecuted for their faith. But there are many poor, non-whites all over the world who are able to worship in peace.
To take up your cross is to engage it total self-denial for the sake of Christ. To put him before anything and everything else. Its the same challenge for all Christians regardless of circumstances.
I think that suffering is to be expected in this life. I also think that it is different to persecution. Yes persecution is suffering, but they are not synonymous. Suffering is part of a broken and sinful world. As such, is to be considered the norm for the Christian life (and the non-Christian's at that).
I don’t think that the Scriptures in any way promise us a life without suffering. In fact I think they show us and highlight to us the very fact that we will suffer, and the reason for that suffering.
I also think that the Scriptures point out to us that we will be persecuted. Christians are to be different to the world. If we are going to be different to the world, then it is a given (well I think it is) that we will be persecuted. The darkness does not like the light.
To take up one's cross is a denial of self, a putting of Christ first.
But is that really suffering?
We only think that it is, because we 'suffer' in not getting what we want.
Hmm... sorry Craig B, you are right, I didn't quite read you right... However, I would have thought that the suffering of self-sacrifice is in some way the natural corollory of the truly Christian walk. That is, in the Corinthian correspondence, Paul seems to point to his sufferings for the gospel as a mark of his cross-shaped life and his true answering of the call - over and against the glory theology of the Corinthians. I suppose I am just doubting whether the accomodation of most churches and Christians to the world is really an enactment of our true being.
Interestingly, both conservative and liberal Christians say the other is accommodating, because they are accommodating to the left or to the right...
G'day Michael,
Sorry I was a bit testy. :)
Now I understand what you mean by suffering.
We need to be careful of not developing a martyer syndrome, I'm sure you know a few like it....I'm pointing at you here either.
I think you have made some sacrifices to go and study again in England, I'm sure some difficult decisions were made about going, with wife and children.
For myself going back to college next year has raised some difficulties, financial as well as extended family disaproval...yet am I really suffering for it, I don't think I am, apart from a bit of trepidation of feeling inadequat about doing so.
You have a brain, you are a fairly intelligent man, you could most likely have gone into any profession and done well at it, most likely made heaps of money to boot. You have not gone down that path, you have answered the call you believe God has called you too, that is self sacrifice.
I think though you are right, I believe that the majority of Christians and therefore by default our churches are not living truly sacrifically, we don't get out and get our hands dirty..
It was interesting at this years Sydney Synod, where much talk was about lack of finances and Zac V spoke passionately about giving generously. He said words to the effect.
"I look around here and see many millionaires, many wealthy people, we could raise up a lot of significant money here tonight if we were to give generously."
A lady came up to him saying, "I am selling my units, I want to give some of it to you, how do I go about it?"
craig b
Sorry Michael, this should read
EDIT.
We need to be careful of not developing a martyer syndrome, I'm sure you know a few like it....I'm NOT pointing at you here either.
EDIT
You can change my post if you are able to,
craig ..
LOL
I read the first post as having the NOT in there. It is amazing what your eyes can miss over! Maybe I am developing selective eye syndrome :)
I think Bonhoeffer's The Cost of Discipleship is a very good book on this topic, especially because it vigorously resists the temptation to domesticate the sayings of Jesus.
I myself would agree with your opening question, Michael. We privileged Westerners really ought to feel the pressure of this question: what can Jesus' call to discipleship mean for us? And it seems to me that, confronted with the absoluteness of Jesus' call, our exegetical instinct will always be one of self-preservation.
I've noticed that many sermons on the sayings of Jesus start out with Jesus' own sharp antitheses and shattering absoluteness -- and then the preacher ends up with a harmless and domesticated middle-class interpretation (or, worse still, "application") of these sayings! This self-preserving strategy is perfectly understandable, precisely because Jesus is not just announcing something that we already knew for ourselves. He is announcing a wholly new thing: the breaking-in of the reign of God. And this new thing demands a new and absolute decision: either/or!
Thus it's no coincidence that, faced with the absolute and very concrete demands of Jesus' message, the rich young ruler "went away grieved, for he had great wealth" (Mark 10:22). It seems to me that if we don't feel tempted to do the same, to "go away grieved", then we haven't yet really been grasped by what Jesus is saying.
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