Why doesn't the diocese of Sydney run an annual conference in the way that Hillsong does? That is, an unmissable city-based ministry conference which fulfills the aims of:
- allowing cross-pollination of ideas
- enabling people in the diocese to meet up and communicate with one another in a forum other than Synod
- the shared process of identity building in a positive and non-adversarial context
- a chance for lay people in particular to participate in building the diocese
You could have plenary sessions and seminars on a broad spectrum of topics.
At the moment, CMS Summer School is treated like this by a certain generation of clergy, but the trouble is firstly that it is in Katoomba, and secondly that its focus is narrowly on overseas missions and thirdly it is at the wrong time of year (January). We have the annual Synod, but this is a parliamentary body which meets for politico-legal reasons, and excludes those who have not been elected to it. Already there is a very crowded calendar of events, but you just trump them by being better than all of 'em put together.
Anyhow, since I had the idea it is probably very unlikely ever to come to pass!
40 comments:
It's a great idea, MPJ.
Now is it just my impression, or has this blog become less boring since you quoted an unkind comment that a relative made.
;-)
Don't worry, bro, I read every post with an avidity bordering on obsession.
It might be a good idea, but a Jamboree? Come on... that is one ordinary name.
Maybe SYDANGstock
or Lollapolsynod
or The Big Day Outreach
Are a bit better, any others
hey mpj... maybe the head leader (under Jesus) of sydang could drive it - do you know him? if you do you could pass the idea on... ;)
The big draw of the Hillsong shindig is the feel of the event. It's super celebatory and uplifting and it makes you feel good. It's is also not just for Hillsong people, but for anyone who wants to come. This is reflected in the platform choices that they have made over the last few years. What you describe sounds a little inhouse, which is what we Anglicans are good at, and, I fear, is a stumbling block to the mission. It would also turn into a teaching fest, which is fine, but if you wanted to have the same effect as the Hillsong event you would have to widen your scope and look hard to change the image that we have (conservative, intellectual, etc. I know that this image is unfair, but it's the image we are dealing with nonetheless. Trust me. I'm fighting it all the time in the Hills area).
Oh, I agree the name Jamboree is terrible. I can only assume Michael was being ironic. Then again, they say Oxford does funny things to people.
I don't think it would be a good idea to get senior clergy to try and drive this, better to get them to endorse it but have a younger, fresher crowd organise it.
Martin is fully right that you would need a celebratory feel for this to work. That's probably why MJ said it wouldn't happen - because if someone says "let's have some great music", someone else will say "No - we need Dick Lucas to lead us through a verse by verse exposition of Lamentations. Long version."
The uplifting exposition of Lamentation 4:10 ought to get the crowd going
:P
Trust me. I'm fighting it all the time in the Hills area
The perception or the reality?
I don't think it would be a good idea to get senior clergy to try and drive this, better to get them to endorse it but have a younger, fresher crowd organise it.
good call.
let me rephrase:
hey mpj... maybe the head leader (under Jesus) of sydang could endorse it - do you know him? if you do you could pass the idea on... ;)
and marty could drive the younger fresher crew!
What...Marty Sampson..? ;-)
I wonder how many seats you would need for the first one. Would 1,000 be too conservative, or not conservative enough.
Where should it be? Darling Harbour convention centre?
And who is the cool international speaker we should get? I guess John Piper would be out of the question... Mark Dever maybe?
The name Jamboree was not a serious name - I was being silly!
I think Marty says exactly what I wanted to say: it would have to be celebratory and not in-house at all. I wanted it to be the kind of thing people would fly from Perth to come to. Lay people even. Do we have the capacity to do such a thing?
You are right that our tendency would be to turn it into a teach-feast with all the usual suspects teaching (I note the rotation of speakers at Katoomba conventions is VERY small). I had something far more broad in mind: music would HAVE to be a focus.
[This reminds me of comparing what happens at ordination retreats in most dioceses - a silent retreat - with what happens in Sydney - EIGHT talks!! We just can't stop talking you know. Some silence wouldn't be a bad thing!]
Why would John Piper be out of the question? Mark Dever is a great guy, true. The American accent is off-putting to many of course...
If we couldn't get 1000 for the first one, you'd be pretty disappointed. Craig Schwarze to be chair of the organising committee.
Craig: Methinks its a little of both. Note one conversation I had with a local parishoner:
Me: Maybe we could get a group together to read some theology or something?
Parishoner: Nah, that's so Anglican!
There is this feeling that theology is dry and limiting, which is not true at all. However, one has to wonder where this idea came from. I think I have noticed that often we use theology in a polemical kind of way, rather than in a life giving kind of way. This is a big turn off. Add to this the fear of too much subjective religion and we end up modeling a spirituality which finds it hard to avoid the labels 'reserved' and 'intellectual'.
There is a conference doing the rounds in the US called the 'Passion' conferrence which looks interesting. John Piper has attached his name to it (he's spoken a few times at it). From first observances it looks like they're trying to promote a theological orthodoxy which leads to 'Passion' as teir title suggests. From what I know they are trying to take it on the(international) road. Maybe it will find its way here!
Also, comments like
Here's an idea that will never come to pass
betray another difference between us and our friends at Hillsong. C'mon Mike, make the vision a reality!!!
Regarding Piper, I imagine he is booked out until kingdom come, but it could be a possibility.
I wanted it to be the kind of thing people would fly from Perth to come to. Lay people even. Do we have the capacity to do such a thing?
Well, it would be very counter-cultural for Sydney Anglicanism, I think. This is a problem clearly, it would only take 1 or 2 high profile diocesan people to be cold on the idea, and it could almost sink it.
And so many people have a finger in the "Katoomba" pie that there may not be enthusiasm for another conference.
I'm just thinking out loud here - these are not insurmountable problems by any means.
If we couldn't get 1000 for the first one, you'd be pretty disappointed.
I'm naturally conservative. Hillsong had 150 at the first conference.
Craig Schwarze to be chair of the organising committee.
Perhaps you need a less polarizing individual (and someone who knows something about conferences). But I do want to explore this further...
It would make the whole thing a lot easier if we could get Synod to sign off on it (and throw a few $$ at it to). Then again, you would then have a Synod voted committee that would probably roon the whole thing...
But could it work if it started on the fringe, without "official" endorsement? Not sure - you really want it to be *The* Sydney Anglican conference. Just like Hillsong have *The* Hillsong conference.
Thinking out loud...
I have noticed that often we use theology in a polemical kind of way, rather than in a life giving kind of way.
Marty, I reckon there is something to that mate
What would you call it. I was thinking Anglofest, but that sounds a bit white supremecist...
How about Anglophile '08? Anglican and LOVIN' IT!!!
lol - I reckon that's a great name Marty! It's *so* politically incorrect...
Hi, Craig said I should put my two cents in - he and I have tossed around a similar idea before and I suggest:
get Youthworks involved - maybe McNeill or Zac
book a neutral venue like the chicks do for Equip - but NOT Darling Harbour where they have it, too expensive - maybe Homebush Bay, there are tons of sites there you can hire and it is central and still quite hip as a location
I would be happy to meet to discuss with others over a beer (bit like how CMS was started)
David
re name and date -
how about Easter Sunday 08 (March next year- earliest in years) and call it 'Rise' as in the Resurrection and let's rise up and do something about it
'Rise 08' - fantastic. But I don't think easter next year would be at all achievable. 'Rise 09' - I'll book it in!
Wow, this is spiraling in a really interesting way. I think the best thing to do is organise it and THEN ask for endorsement and funds. People could go to the Hillsong conference and see what things are worth copying, too.
The polemical thing is a real insight that I have been feeling for some time. The tone of our preaching is relentlessly polemical! We do a great job at defining ourselves negatively by what we don't support. This would be an opportunity to do the opposite.
I like the Easter thing, though lots of Church people are pretty committed to their own churches at that time of year. You could start on Easter Sunday night perhaps and go Monday and Tuesday. But if it is good, people will use up holiday to go to it.
When I was a school chaplain we tried to begin a Friday afternoon rally style big youth event thingy in the Cathedral - it was called Platform 7. One of my key criteria was that it must not be what I call 'porridge' youth work. That is, there is a kind of youth ministry (and adults too) that is like eating your porridge: you do it because it is good for you but it tastes terrible. It is endured rather than enjoyed. Our tendency is to run events that are to be endured and not enjoyed.
Rise '09 must NOT be this.
Also, this event could signal a generational shift. Not in that it would be too youthy, but in that it would be up to people of Gordon Cheng's generation to step forward and make it happen. 'Bout time that shifty mob of Gen Xers did something...
Also, this event could signal a generational shift. Not in that it would be too youthy, but in that it would be up to people of Gordon Cheng's generation to step forward and make it happen. 'Bout time that shifty mob of Gen Xers did something...
MJ, I've been thinking too that this needs to happen in the diocese. There's a generation of ageing warriors approaching their twilight, and I don't feel GenX has risen to take the leadership.
Yeah, I can dig "Rise 09" - though 2 years seems a while away! Maybe Rise 08 with October timing. Whats a good month for a conference?
I'm not convinced about Easter timing.
Point taken about "porridge" events.
MJ, you might be a reasonable choice for a keynote speaker actually, you have been away long enough to be somewhat exotic.
You could never afford my fee...
Interestingly, the big conference speaker type guys in the US are pastors and church growers not scholars. I think we are similar: what we value is can-do and know-how, not boffin-knowledge of the kind I have! But I am happy to be called exotic!
October is a good time of year. Whatever time of year, you are gonna step on some toes, but that's just tough.
Interestingly, the big conference speaker type guys in the US are pastors and church growers not scholars.
Tis a good point...
Any ideas for conference themes?
i think it would need to be something simple, biblical and emotive.
Joy maybe or the (bad words) Christian hedonism thing of Piper put in some hip words - in other words something thaTS not instantly recognisable as a syllabus entry for Doctrine 3 at Moore, and something not instantly polarising
And so many people have a finger in the "Katoomba" pie that there may not be enthusiasm for another conference.
Which is why I think that KCC could consider exploring the option of bringing a conference down the mountain and into somewhere like the State Sports Centre a la the old City Youth Conventions which I remember were great (I only had the chance to go to one but remember it well).
The logistical knowhow is definitely within the diocese to make something that combines elements of the different KCCs, TWIST, Equip et al, but does more than merely replicate the buzz and hype of Hillsong. Plus I reckon that it'd need to be something that appeals not just to us SydAngs but to other denominations.
I still don't have my head around who would be good speakers for this sort of event...
Forget Hillsong, I want a World Youth Day!
So, OK. Joining late.
You'd really have to decide that centralisation is something we can do. That’s what I presume Hillsong have done with their conference: I presume this is their one main gig that they ask everyone to go to.
But we don't do that really. That’s not Anglican as we know Anglican. We go to 100 different conferences (I think it models our parish based ministry actually, and is the reason we can’t seem to grow a particular congregation above 300).
Hillsong have 30,000 go to one conference; but I presume that we have a stack more that go to all the other (and therefore decentralised) conferences: KCC (X10), MYCs/AnnCons, Challenge, CMS, smaller camps for kids etc.
So I have a question that would need answering: Do our decentralised conferences do more good for the Gospel than one 30,000 Hillsfest? I presume that the answer is Yes, by the way.
The answer could be ‘yes’, and Rise (whatever) still goes ahead. But it would be would have to grow slowly and then strongly as it vies for ‘primacy’ (for want of a better word). It has to rise above the noise of our other conferences to be the one Sydney Anglican Conference.
It would have to be something different.
Just thinking aloud with you all.
Oh. ANd I really like porridge.
Well now, Justin is really thinking here: there are some philosophical issues which need to be addressed quite seriously. We are it is true committed to small not big. We don't do big as a rule. And anyway, the diversity and independence of each congregation is closely guarded. Our first allegiance is to the parish, not to the diocese.
However, in the era of mass communications, can we afford to be so small time? Can we afford to be corner stores in the era of supermarkets? Are there not opportunities for mission and growth in a more centralised approach? We do we trust our centres so little, and must we continue to do so?
I am literally a child of the centre of course...
I totally take the point that the conference calendar is very crowded already.
What appeals to me about MJs original suggestion was that it was more oritented toward celebration than education. I don't know that we have anything like that at the moment, and I think people might respond to it.
I also think some urban based conferences would be good for us to have. Not everyone is keen to trek up to Katoomba. And an urban conference is more visible to the world than something in the mountains, which could be an advantage...
Great idea Michael. It seems each generation needs to keep re-inventing and re-invigorating the whole conference thing. Be good to think beyond the usual suspects. Obviously need to take very seriously Justin's questions about the philosophy of ministry underlying all this - which is perhaps why some comments express concern about Hillsong as a paradigm and others fear a teachfest. What about Mark Driscoll as an international headliner? Love to see Cheng up too. When will you launch the 'Rise 09' website with your new PC?
Hmmm...I've been advised by someone who knows about this stuff that the large venues, and the insurance companies, will only deal with established and credentialed organisations.
So getting something like this to work would require someone like YouthWorks to get behind it. Not out of the question, but it would require a sell...
One thought, and that is that big youthy evangelical conferences are AFES heartland. National Training Event has been going a while now and regularly gets >1000, and theologically they are right in the zone. There is enough overlap with Sydney Anglicans that there would be expertise (and speakers) there to be drawn upon without too much trouble.
What's wrong with a Jamboree! Brings back happy memories of knee length socks, garter tabs and woggles.
A good call re: AFES Gordo
I read a few blogs, this one occasionally, craigS's a fair bit and a few others, but I don't often post. However this is such a great idea that I had to post a comment.
I love the sheer size of the idea, a mega conference celebrating Sydney Anglicanism. I, like everyone, have my gripes with Sydney's particular brand of theology/churchmanship but there is a relentless determination to be loyal to Christ and Scripture among Sydney Anglicans that should be celebrated. I'm currently studying at Ridley, Melbourne, but read the Briefing and have been influenced by many people in and from Sydney.
Just a few reactions and thoughts:
1. Is 2009 too soon?
2. 'Rise' good but is it the best, names stick, it needs to be a good one?
3. Celebration, emotional, high profile, headlining not training, small, niche focused. (There are already enough training, niche conferences.)
4. What a brilliant way of attracting like minded people from across Australia and the world. Hillsong influences a lot of Christians in other denominations with their conference, Sydney could do the same.
5. Planning. Needs to be planned like D-Day.
--Luke I
I like what you say Luke and Amy. On the Sydney Anglican website Gordo makes some good points that we should take note of: we ought to be true to what we are good at, and what we hold to be most important.
It's the identity question: and I guess in running such a thing you have to have 'the usual suspects' and do 'the usual thing' because that is who we are. But it can also be an opportunity to expand that profile somewhat.
Partly, I have to say, I had in mind the civic profile that such an event might have. At the moment, what draws all the media attention is the Synod, which is a conflictual meeting (necessarily) so it always looks like we are fighting. This tries to take some of the heat away from Synod.
Ah - I get it now... a diversion!
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